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  #11  
Old 03-22-2013, 08:38 PM
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TankDan TankDan is offline
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It has begun.....

Well I decided to start tinkering with this monster. I started with the engine, and am hoping that my experience in automotive modeling with make this a real gem.
I assembled the basic engine per the kit instructions and painted it Tamiya flat aluminum. Once that was dry I set about weathering the engine. In most of my research photos the aluminum block and heads were unpainted, and it seems the raw aluminum stayed relatively clean, assuming the photos are accurate. The bellhousing at the rear of the engine seemed to have a tendancy to attract grime, but at this point I've overdone it in that area. V-2 engines also seem to have consistent rust staining where the iron exhaust manifolds mated to the heads, and from miscellaneous steel bits and pieces here and there rusting.
Weathering so far has been achieved using oil paints and pigments, but mainly oil paints. The pigments have only really been used for texture.
It seems the Soviets usually painted the valve covers and oil pan a bright red, which I have not done yet. I noticed that in an episode of Tank Overhaul about the BMP too. I'd like to go pretty gross on the detail here. Stay tuned.







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  #12  
Old 03-23-2013, 06:38 AM
KuKŁiNsKi KuKŁiNsKi is offline
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nice! (=
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  #13  
Old 03-23-2013, 08:06 PM
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Thanks KuK....i think it'll look good....should have another update tomorrow or monday
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  #14  
Old 03-25-2013, 02:48 PM
schlichtr schlichtr is offline
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I'm with Mark on this one. Converting that kit to a STZ 1942 is going to be a lot of work. Infact you will probably end up having to scratch build an all new upper hull, turret (possibly including the hatch) and gun mantlet at the least, and then source new road wheels, sprocket, idler and tracks. Some of the things you can use from this kit is the lower hull, engine deck, barrel, drivers hatch (maybe) and the turret side vision ports. I would be however interested in seeing you tackle this job. Good luck. The engine is looking great so far.

Roy
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  #15  
Old 03-25-2013, 03:02 PM
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greybeard greybeard is offline
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The salient point is that bt 1942, each T-34 factory was essentially building a different tank. This is particularly so for STZ T-34s, which had some very noticeable differences from other T-34s, specifically a new hull, new turret, roadwheels, drive wheel, idler wheel, tracks, rounded rear hull, and other details including vision devices, MG housing, turret hatch, and so on.

As boxed, the kit represents a T-34 from Zavod No.112 (Krasnoe Sormovo) from 1942-43 (and not that well, at that). To use this kit as the basis for an STZ T-34 means leaving most of the parts in the box, since it is generally easier to scratchbuild the items mentioned rather than trying to make them by modifying the kit parts.

That said, some turrets were sent from Krasnoe Sormovo to STZ in the latter part of 1942 and these turrets were installed on STZ hulls. If you can find a photo of one of these hybrids, you can avoid replacing the turret, but the hull and suspension will remain major challenges.

Good luck. If you choose to pursue this, let me know. I have a great deal of information on T-34s, particularly for STZ production.

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Scott Fraser
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  #16  
Old 03-25-2013, 06:07 PM
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Glad you're back at this one. Love the engine!













~ Jeff
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  #17  
Old 03-25-2013, 07:42 PM
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TankDan TankDan is offline
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Thanks for the info guys....i'm using some pretty basic referrences and waiting for some more.....most of the referrences i'm looking at lead me to believe that there was so much shuffling about of parts and materials on the eastern front that nearly any combination of parts could be acceptable for nearly and given model. While i know this isnt true, i do see some room for latitude in what could be considered "correct" from one model to another, though i agree that this is less true for the STZ. Hopefully the reference materials i'm waiting on will show me more accurate detail differences.
I'm pleased with the engine so far....made alot of progress on it today but no pics yet...maybe in the next couple days.

PS: Scott i'd take any information youre willing to share....thanks!
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  #18  
Old 03-26-2013, 12:47 AM
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Ok, I'm home now and able to review some of my references better. I sorta see what you guys are saying about the rear deck, but the only real difference I see is the shape of the very end edge of the deck, how the STZ model is slightly more rounded...the 1942 edition has a crisper edge there. I don't see that being too difficult to change...I haven't studied the model hard yet, but I'm betting it will just be a matter of scratchbuilding a new rear engine cover (or actually a trans cover). Nothing too difficult there, especially in this scale. The vents in the radiator cover sides are different, but that can be scratched, and of course the little access panel on the very rear of the tank between the exhaust outlets is rectangular rather than circular...simple enough. I also see changes in the forward MG mantlet....again, I think that can be modified to work for the STZ version. The changes to the driver's hatch could require a little work, but should be within my skills.
The turret will be a lot of work, but I think it's do-able with the kit turret. I could even make the kit one work...I've been seeing a lot of STZ's with cast turrets, but I like the look of the welded turret and to me it is a defining feature of the STZ tanks. Even if I had to scratch a welded type turret, that wouldn't be too bad, but I think with some surgery the kit one will be fine. The interlocks on the glacis and transom are just surface details.
To me the biggest challenge by far is the road wheel/sprocket/idler situation. The rest of it, unless I'm missing some major proportional differences, is really pretty simple stuff. I'm trying to locate a guy named Horst who made some resin steel road wheels for another modeler. That or as Jeff said use some from the Trumpeter model 1943 and cast a couple copies for the fore and aft sets that are rubber. I also need to research the tracks...a little worried they may or may not be the correct type??
I'm not trying to dispute anything anyone is saying or sound cocky...this conversion will be a lot of work, but compared to the rest of the work on a model like this it kind of seems trivial. I'm not really an OOB builder anyway...I cant remember the last time I really built a model that wasn't about 25% Evergreen (OK, my little Pz. II I just did is OOB, but that was a study in weathering techniques). So like I said, unless I'm missing some really big differences other than those I've listed, I don't think it'll be bad. Am I on the right page?
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  #19  
Old 03-26-2013, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TankDan View Post
.....most of the references i'm looking at lead me to believe that there was so much shuffling about of parts and materials on the eastern front that nearly any combination of parts could be acceptable for nearly and given model...
That's true to a point. The Red Army had a very efficient recovery and repair corps and many T-34s were hauled off the battlefield and rebuilt, often involving replacing the turret with one from another damaged tank. That said, when tanks came through the factory gate, they were built to a certain standard.

With T-34s, there are two dynamics. Firstly is the constantly evolving design, as tanks were improved over the passage of time. Secondly there is the fact that each T-34 factory was given a free hand to tinker with the design if it made it easier for them to manufacture it.

The result was that by the end of 1942, T-34s from the five different factories each had unique features and, in the case of the hull, unique methods of construction. Turrets are another matter entirely.

Very briefly: The initial T-34s built in Kharkov (Zavod No.183, alias KhPZ) before the Germans came had both welded and cast turrets, wide 'plate' tracks, stamped wheels, louvered intakes, different driver's hatch and a round back end with square hatch. KhPZ was overrun and none of these were built after September 1941.

Focus shifts to Stalingrad, where STZ was just starting tank production. By the end of 1941, STZ tanks differed from other T-34 with a new suspension featuring all-steel roadwheels and new tracks. At the same time, the hull was redesigned so that the plates all overlapped and interlocked. This is very visible. A new turret was also in order, distinguishable by the flat rear panel and sometimes clipped front corners and/or a chisel mantlet, depending on how late it was built. STZ manufactured tanks until August 1942.

The only surviving STZ T-34: http://pblinov.narod.ru/galleries/ta...ondarevka.html

Elsewhere, T-34 production started at Krasnoe Sormovo (Zavod No.112) at the end of 1941. Here they introduced the hull with sharp rear joint between upper and lower plates and the round hatch. Turrets here were all cast, a different cast turret from those used earlier by KhPZ. They made their own stamped wheels, different again from those used by KhPZ. Tracks came from STZ, with barges sent back loaded with cast turrets.

Zavod No.112: http://legion-afv.narod.ru/T-34-76_Bragin.html

The KhPZ factory (Zavod No.) was evacuated to the Urals, to Nizhnii Tagil (UTZ). They too started up early in 1942. At first their tanks were made from parts they had brought with them but by spring 1942 they were being delivered with the new hexagonal turret and combination of rubber-tired and internally cushioned cast roadwheels, of a pattern different from those made at STZ. Hull construction differed from Zavod No.112 in that the upper rear plate of UTZ tanks sat inside the lower plate instead of on top of it, as at Krasnoe Sormovo. The hinges and bolt patterns at the rear were different for every factory, which is the easiest way to distinguish them all.

Zavod No. 183 (UTZ): http://legion-afv.narod.ru/T-34-76_MoscowCMMF.html

In the meantime, not far away from UTZ two more tank factories were gearing up to manufacture T-34s, at Chelyabinsk (ChKZ) and Sverdlovsk (UZTM). These three factories swapped parts back and forth regularly, although UZTM and ChKZ only built T-34s for part of the war. Their tanks differ in minor detail, for the most part, although UZTM commonly used stamped roadwheels where the other two used cast wheels.

Finally there is Zavod No.174 in Omsk, far away to the east. Their T-34s came later, had stamped wheels and different hinges at the rear than the Ural manufacturers. Other than that, they were very similar to Ural tanks.

So. The kit is of a Krasnoe Sormovo T-34. It's a simple enough matter to change the rear hull configuration to that of a tank from UTZ or Omsk, and the turret was used on some tanks from STZ and the first few from UTZ.

To make a KhPZ T-34 from it is considerably more work, requiring a new turret, rear end, modified roadwheels, new idler and drive wheels, not to mention the tracks. STZ tanks started from KhPZ tanks: again a new turret, new rear end at the very least, and complete new suspension. For a later tank it is also necessary to rebuild the hull, essentially from copies of the plates actually used. It isn't that hard to do, probably one of the easiest scratchbuilding projects ever because they were designed for such crude assembly.

Anyway, these links will give you an eyeful. Baryatinsky's book (Ian Allen) is still the best reference in English, AFAIK. "Mythical Weapon" is overrated and overpriced and full of errors, so beware of that one. The monographs from MBI (Czech) and Ajaks (Polish) are recommended, although the latter is dated now. Wydawnictwo Militaria (Poland) has reprinted a number of Russian Frontline Illustrated monographs. No.265 is a reprint of Lagutin's monograph on STZ T-34s. Nos. 268 and 269 are reprints of Kirsanov's book detailing differences between T-34-76s. Those are probably the best references and should be fairly easy to get. The best references, naturally, are in Russian, by Maksim Kolomiets, most recently Proslavlennaya T-34.

Regards
Scott Fraser
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Last edited by greybeard; 03-26-2013 at 03:58 AM.
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  #20  
Old 03-26-2013, 04:10 PM
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I chanced upon this today. It's a T-34 from STZ in 1942. The turret is from Krasnoe Sormovo. The hull and suspension are from STZ.

Note the way the front plate of the hull fits with the side plates. This back is similar, as are the joints along the bottom and lower sides of the hull.

The MG mounting has a retaining ring going all the way around the ball mount. Other factories had U-shaped retainer.

The wheels are cast, unique to STZ, as are idler and driver. The tracks are early "waffle tracks" of 550mm width. (The kit probably has 500mm tracks used later in the war.)

Not visible is the back end, which has a curved joiner between upper and lower plates, with square hatch.

Compare the photo with the model and decide for yourself. I have another photo of a T-34 with the same symbol (triangle-8), clearly a Zavod No.112 tank that you could build pretty much from the box.




HTH
Scott Fraser
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