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Old 08-02-2010, 10:07 PM
chadperkins chadperkins is offline
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Panzer IV Ausf. H Early - 4th Panzer Div.


Hi guys, I have finally gotten settled in my new Nashville home and things are starting to get back to some sense of normalcy so I thought I'd post a new project I'm getting ready to start. The Marder is still around, just wanted to start a second project to break things up a bit. Let me start by saying this is not the smartest or most economic approach to model building but I have had it in my mind to build this for a while and I finally gave in after picking up the Armor at War Series 4.Panzer-Division on the Eastern Front 1944 which has all the pics of 4th PzD IV H's with ostketten tracks and shurtzen with the zig zag zimmerit patterns. Picked up Tom Cockle's book since he builds one of these in it and emailed back and forth with the man himself to discuss how best to tackle this. The result...... The Dragon Panzer IV G Kharkov kit will be used for the main hull parts with the late H kit for the turret and various other parts will be contributed from each kit to bring the two together for one accurate early H. I'll document the various parts used from each as best I can as I go along. Feel free to contribute your Mark IV knowledge as well, this is one that I could probably use some technical input on. Other additions will be the Griffin Model update set (excited to try this out as it's rediculously extensive and contains around 8 frets of pe), barrel, early shurtzen set, Orange Hobby filtering system, Aber tow cables and Friul tracks. Again, this is probably not the smartest build but I just couldn't resist so you can thank me later when the Early H is released. Havn't really started yet but when I do I'll get an update up for you guys. Nice to be back in the swing of things.......
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Last edited by chadperkins; 11-15-2010 at 09:04 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-03-2010, 05:31 PM
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I'll be watching this with great interest, as I plan on also doing an early H, though I'll be using the Tamiya kit.
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Old 08-05-2010, 10:33 PM
chadperkins chadperkins is offline
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Trying to get up and going on this and I'm in a bit of a rut. Trying to answer the following question. So the hulls on the early H's were pretty much modified G's. I have cleaned up all of the front hull parts (hull extensions, front plate, transmission cover, etc.) but i'm having a problem. H's had a variety of different uparmored front plates with the later interlocking welded 80mm plates, the bolted on ones, the partial welded plat with cut outs for the towing hooks and then the full welded on plates. I'm trying to find a reference for the full welded on 30 mm plate to see how it is attached, the width, etc. and I am coming up empty. I do know that adding thickness will cause the plate to stick out past the hull side extensions which seems a bit odd but I'm certain this was done I just don't know exactly how or what it looked like. Anyone have a pic where this mod is clearly visible? If I could get that part sorted I could move on and actually make some progress but I'm stuck until I figure this out. Tom Cockle has said that I should use the G hull parts like I mentioned and just add a .020 sheet of styrene to represent the added 30 mm.. Only problem is, I don't know what it should look like on the ends where it meets and hangs out past the hull sides. The other types of plates are not as wide as the front plate and you can see the welds but I'm not sure the full plates were done this way....... Any help, I'm out of resources to tap guys. Thanks
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Old 08-05-2010, 11:29 PM
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If it's a 30mm piece of metal, and a 1/35 scale model, shouldn't the thickness .86mm on the styrene?

It's the same dimensions as the plate to which it's bolted, except that it's got a cut out for the towing brackets.
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Old 08-06-2010, 08:47 AM
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Chad,

did you get my email?

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DML Pz IV G April-May 1943
DML Neubau-Fahrzeug Nr. 2
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Old 08-06-2010, 09:28 AM
chadperkins chadperkins is offline
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Yes I did and that's exactly what I was trying to get a good look at. Thanks
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Old 08-08-2010, 09:12 PM
chadperkins chadperkins is offline
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Been away so long from modelling I didn't realize I was out of almost everything..... I had to order some Mr. Surfacer and some putty before I can get to work on the major stuff but I have made a bit of progress worth sharing. The front of the hull was a mystery to me as to exactly what it should look like but thanks to some help from you guys and Tom Cockle, I think I've gotten it right. The G hull is needed instead of the H for a couple reasons, the first of which is the front section. This is the G front plate with evergreen added to make it the same thickness as the H plate. Couldn't use the H plate because it is welded to the hull with interlocking welds unlike the G which is just butt welded so this was the easiest solution. Also, the H transmission cover plate is interlock welded instead of just welded along the hull sides. Once put together, I had to fill the gaps on the hull sides where all the front parts are put together. The hull side should just be one solid piece so I filled with CA and sanded before putting on the final drives.

Another issue with the late H is the shape of the hatch rain guards which as you can see are angled on the early models instead of square on the late as shown in the late H kit. I'll deal more with the upper hull later on, just had to put it on for the pics......

The rear of the hull has another difference from the late H requiring the use of the G kit that being the slope on the underside of the rear section which you can see here.

The late H was just flat on the back instead of sloping like the picture. Again, with no putty to speak of, I moved on to do some other random stuff. The barrel is from Griffon and is every bit as good as aber or anyone else's. Goes together the same way with 5 or 6 parts on the muzzle break and it fits perfectly with the kit parts. No real surgery needed.

I put together the sprockets, rear idlers and worked on the cupola for a while. This kit is really remarkably well made with super surface detail (this is my first of these new generation panzer IV's) as you can see. The cupola is really nice in itself.


Next, I thought I'd try out a trick that I learned from Paul Garrity for the exhaust. I rolled some thin brass plate cut to the proper width and diameter and soldered it together. Proceeded to chop up the kit exhaust to remove the brackets and shortened the ends slightly to make the overall width the same as it would have been put together as per the kit instructions. I then sanded down the main kit exhaust section's ends so that I could fit them inside me new cylinder to give me something to glue the ends onto for added strength. I then just sanded around the joint to smooth it out and proceeded to beat it up a bit. The straps that hold it on with conveniently cover the joints between the parts. Great idea which I'll take no credit for but which turned out pretty good imo.


Also put the friuls together (hate that part of a project)...... Had to throw them on to see how it looks. Like a baby tiger!
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Old 08-08-2010, 10:29 PM
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Chad, on all the photos I've seen of late G's and early H's, the front towing brackets are attached to the 50mm armor, and the 30mm plate has cut outs around them. I think it's not until the late H, and the 80mm plate that the towing brackets stand proud, so to speak.
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Old 08-08-2010, 11:03 PM
chadperkins chadperkins is offline
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I'll check into again but I think they were done in a variety of ways. There were the bolted cut out plates, welded cut out plates and the full thicker plates depending on when and who produced it. I think the welded/bolted on 30 mm plates went away around June 43 at the same time as the hull side vision ports were deleted........ but I wouldn't call this a late H yet...... Here is a pic that I was sent by someone over at ML and who posts here as well of a preserved G/H. You can see the hull sides are welded to the transmission cover straight without any interlocking joints (later feature) and also that the front hull side extensions do not protrude past the front plate as it would with a later version with the 80 mm plate (ie: the dragon late H kit). That said, the front plate is the thick singular 80 mm plate with the towing .brackets welded to it. This appears to be an example of what I'm trying to portray.



The term "early" or "late" is a bit of a gray area as we know and I could certainly be wrong. I've been talking with Tom Cockle and others about this very issue for a while trying to be sure that I get it right so I'll certainly try to verify it as best I can before I move forward too much.
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Old 08-09-2010, 11:01 AM
chadperkins chadperkins is offline
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So why doens't my thread have a thumbnail next to it? Just curious why some do and others do not.....
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