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  #21  
Old 03-14-2007, 07:13 PM
tamigawa tamigawa is offline
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I know the Vinnie/armorama/DML topic is a sore one but let's be civil please...........
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  #22  
Old 03-14-2007, 08:27 PM
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lquah lquah is offline
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It all boils down to expectations, in my opinion. We should ask, what do we expect from a review? Do our expectations change depending on whether the review is a "in-box" review or full review?

It's quite clear that one should expect a full review to be very comprehensive highlighting both good and bad points. You would expect inaccuracies to be pointed out as well.

How about "in-box" reviews? How useful are they? If it is just to report on what is in the box, should it then be called a review? Maybe calling it a report would be more appropriate.

How much of a role does an "in-box" review help one decide whether to buy the kit? Is the use of a score an appropriate measure for an "in-box" review?

LQ
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Adrian Cronauer [imitating Walter Cronkite]: I just want to begin by saying to Roosevelt E. Roosevelt, what it is, what it shall be, what it was. The weather out there today is hot and shitty with continued hot and shitty in the afternoon. Tomorrow a chance of continued crappy with a pissy weather front coming down from the north. Basically, it's hotter than a snake's ass in a wagon rut.
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  #23  
Old 03-14-2007, 09:01 PM
Jorge Alvear Jorge Alvear is offline
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Bascially, what Mike said....

My point is Vinny Branigan is rather generous with his review scores for Dragon kits. Fine, he does not give every Dragon kit 98%, I stand corrected. It just seemed to me that even the Dragon kits with overt errors are strongly praised and the mistakes are glossed over, if mentioned at all, in Branigan's reviews. I am currently building the Dragon 234/2 and I am enjoying it tremendously, great fit and all, 98% at least, but their Marder IIIH has some serious issues that, giving it a 98% is just ludicrous. And he did claim Panthers in Kursk had zimmerit. Here is the link: http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?...d=84017&page=1
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  #24  
Old 03-15-2007, 01:50 AM
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Tordenskiold Tordenskiold is offline
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Mahatma Gandhi once said:

Hate the sin - love the sinner

The Marder kit may have some issues - but compared to other kits out there, it is still a good kit for 99.9% of model builders. Sure, you have every right to critic the kit and the review. But when you start to drag the level down to saying all DML kits are crap and Vinnie is an idiot, totally controlled by DML, I, at least, have to say stop.

Vinnie may have his errors - who doesn't ?? - but he is also one of the most nice and helpful persons out there. He answers everybody and all questions without patronizing, he did, on several occations, send me personal emails with helpful stuff from his personal reference collection, he has probably done more for the modelling community as a whole than all of you combined, over the past 5 years.

That's all I have to say about this matter - now I will enjoy building my DML Mader III H

Last edited by Tordenskiold; 03-15-2007 at 03:27 AM.
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  #25  
Old 03-15-2007, 12:01 PM
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pwranta193 pwranta193 is offline
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Thumbs down Maybe because I happen to be in a mood,

but I think that if anything, the others have been gracious in their criticisms.

Look at the host of reviews - and frankly, the only reason I even look at his write ups anymore is after someone sends me prompt to see Teacher's latest sugar coated DML review - and you will see a distinct lack of effort into seeing, looking for or mildly pointing out any shortcomings of a DML kit. If you want to be downright honest about it, in periodic e-mail strings <private> people throw around the expressions "sad, obsequious, grovelling and pandering".

The sad thing is that Vinnie is obviously not an idiot - and his reviews could be so much more. Yes, this is a hobby - but from someone who calls himself "Teacher" within this little community, one would expect something slightly more robust than the "Cliff Notes" of reviews (let me know if these documents aren't known to our international audience).

Further more - breathless excitement over the upcoming release of a model of a plywood mock up, that he clearly states he has no knowledge of is nothing more than genuflecting at the feet of his masters. Caveats that he isn't going to research the kit just don't cut it - if you don't know a Late model Mk 7 Kabukistani MBT from pickled herring... you may not want to go on about the merits of newly released kit of it. Chances are you can find someone who has actual knowledge of said AFV and provide said info.

In box reviews?! Have you looked at the DML SS foursome that look like a parody of an early 60's Motown act? In or out of the box they look wooden, and rushed, and not DMLs best effort. Now go back and see what Vinnie has to say.

I like, own and build DML... but I want something more along the lines of a review than Mr. Brannigan is currently giving us. In short - If I want to be prepared to buy a kit and know what I need to make it work, I look elsewhere for solid reviews. I don't expect perfect kits... but I expect honest and useful information.
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  #26  
Old 03-15-2007, 12:55 PM
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lquah lquah is offline
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I agree with Paul. No one has said that Teacher is a bad person or that he's unfriendly/unhelpful. I am sure he's a very nice person and has done a lot for the community in his own way. The question of how much he contributed or anyone else is very subjective as best. There are guys here who have contributed as much if not more to the modeling community. This point however is not relevant to the issue at hand.

The point is that if you take on the responsibility of writing reviews, then you must know that what you write will affect whether the reader buys the kit or not. DML knows this very well and that is the reason why the like to pick on Mr Foster. Given that a reviewer has this influence, it will be a huge disservice to modelers if the reviewer do not take the time to research the kit and highlight both the good and bad points.

I am in the financial industry and despite having long disclaimers on derivative products it does not absolve us from litigation if we mislead clients. Also having caveats that of not knowing about the vehicle and will make not any attempt to find out, erodes the credibilty of both the review and of the reviewer.

Vinnie is provided kits by DML to review but not Tristar. Ever wonder why there's only one review of a Tristar AFV? Whether it's delibrate or not, but one can't help to wonder to what extent the relationship is with DML.
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Adrian Cronauer [imitating Walter Cronkite]: I just want to begin by saying to Roosevelt E. Roosevelt, what it is, what it shall be, what it was. The weather out there today is hot and shitty with continued hot and shitty in the afternoon. Tomorrow a chance of continued crappy with a pissy weather front coming down from the north. Basically, it's hotter than a snake's ass in a wagon rut.

Last edited by lquah; 03-15-2007 at 12:57 PM.
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  #27  
Old 03-15-2007, 03:03 PM
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Tordenskiold Tordenskiold is offline
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Quote:
but from someone who calls himself "Teacher"
Because he used to be a math teacher maybe ??

Quote:
Vinnie is provided kits by DML to review but not Tristar. Ever wonder why there's only one review of a Tristar AFV?
Kind of explains itself, doesn't it ? If Tristar does not provide kits to review - how can they be done ?
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  #28  
Old 03-15-2007, 03:16 PM
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landm landm is offline
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Interesting...

Jan, I find it somewhat strange that when someone posted something about Dragon's blogger "Hiroshi" insulting and badmouthing Terry Ashley you basicly could care less it seems. (see this thread: http://www.planetarmor.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3308 )
Yet someone says something about a Dragon supporter and you're quoting Jesus Christ, Gandi, and even when you say you're done you come back for more. Seems to be a double standard of sorts here.

Mike
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Last edited by landm; 03-15-2007 at 04:16 PM. Reason: bad spelling
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  #29  
Old 03-15-2007, 03:19 PM
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Tordenskiold Tordenskiold is offline
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Not really - both topics where attacking DML as a company, which I find strange and, yes, double standard since most of you who join the band waggon have posted several builds of DML products. You are fine attacking the company, their products and marketing - but yet you have no problem in buying and building it ??
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  #30  
Old 03-15-2007, 03:36 PM
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landm landm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tordenskiold View Post
Not really - both topics where attacking DML as a company, which I find strange and, yes, double standard since most of you who join the band waggon have posted several builds of DML products. You are fine attacking the company, their products and marketing - but yet you have no problem in buying and building it ??
So...it's Ok for Dragon via "Hiroshi" to insult people, but no one is allowed to complain about Dragon's kits, even when there are obvious errors with some of them? Oh and for the record, looking back through this thread NO ONE has said Dragon's kits are crap. But to say they are perfect, well that's just not true. And yes I too have bought and built Dragon kits.
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