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  #101  
Old 04-07-2011, 06:31 PM
chadperkins chadperkins is offline
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everyone has their views on zimmerit chips. i usually do pale gray just because it i've always thought it would be pretty unlikely that all of the zimmerit would chip off. that would seem illogical since it was self adhered to it so some residue would likely be there regardless of whether the bulk of it was chipped away or not. however, i've also done a few models with the red primer style chips just for artistic value and i like the look of this way as well. all of that said, i like what you've done here
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  #102  
Old 04-07-2011, 06:42 PM
KuKŁiNsKi KuKŁiNsKi is offline
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see??? this zimmstuff is such a pain in the...
but it just takes over you and you just want to zimm every flat surface in your house =D
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  #103  
Old 04-08-2011, 12:24 AM
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Ropi Ropi is offline
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This discussion about the colour under the zim could go a long way, and still, we wouldn't have a scientificly correct and/or sure answer. Some people do the zim chipping with red oxide primer underneath, some use grey, as Chad said, and some others use something else.
What you've done here seems a logical option. Very nice, BTW.
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  #104  
Old 04-08-2011, 12:53 AM
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gibsonfndr gibsonfndr is offline
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As someone said everybody has its own views on Zimmerit (among various topics).
Here are a few facts.
- Zimmerit is a pale brownish paste. Not grey.

-Zimmerit was applied in two coats. the first one having to be completely dry before putting the second coat. It was dryed out using ablow torch. If not properly done, some benzin-based "thinner" could remain and this is the possible explanation to the "inflammable" reputation that was at the origin of it beeing abandonned in Sept 44.
Of course the second coat was dryed out the same way.
Being applied in two coats means that if you want to take it off you really have to go at it. It won't happen just by looking at it with evil eyes. It means that unless hit very hard, only the first coat is scratched. So what do we get when we "chip" Zimmerit ?
`This :




And if you really try and let the tank be for 50 years this is what you get :


Last but not least. When hit by a bullet or a shell, most of the kinetic energy turns into heat which means that whatever paint is on the hit part will burn and turn black.

NB : what you get on these pics is neither "hearsay" nor "Gibsonfndr's thoughts on Zimmerit". Just plain facts based on expermental research on many surviving tanks with original Zimmerit (which sometimes you have to search as the museum guys have no problems putting fake Zimm on the exposed models. You will notice that, at least on one pic, the oxyrot appears in a way that clearly shows that the "scientist" who made this xperiment really wanted the red to appear and used a metallic tool. On another pic the "large" red spot is partially blackened but again, it is most probable that someone helped it there and since this "chip" is very old ... again, and believe me, trying to "chip off "Zimmerit even 70 years old is difficult. This shit sticks like hell. As usual you are free to use these informations the way you want.

I wonder who's ever seen "pink Zimmerit" ?
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Last edited by gibsonfndr; 04-08-2011 at 01:06 AM.
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  #105  
Old 04-08-2011, 06:19 AM
KuKŁiNsKi KuKŁiNsKi is offline
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are you the guy that went to museum and chiped zimm of the tank??? =D
i read on one forum where guy said "tomorrow i'm going..." and next day he was back "hah! got it! see here???" and showed pictures =D what a tzar

would you say that this is correct? i can't really decide if it's oxide or steel...


and do you maybe know on that last picture of yours what is that white thing all over zimm?

Last edited by KuKŁiNsKi; 04-08-2011 at 06:35 AM.
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  #106  
Old 04-08-2011, 07:58 AM
chadperkins chadperkins is offline
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that brownish zimmerit is not exactly factory fresh either and I could contend that it's not the same shade as it was 60 years ago unless we have some chips that were done recently and even then it's still aged. I still think a lightish color of gray or tan (i actually use tamiy buff which is a bit of both i suppose) is the most accurate but as you've shown there are certainly other options that are just as plausible. this is one of those things that we'll all just have to talk about for years to come but on the bright side, they all look nice when done up properly on models if we just had high definition color photographs from that era........
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  #107  
Old 04-08-2011, 09:29 AM
KuKŁiNsKi KuKŁiNsKi is offline
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40 % Barium sulfate - BaSO4
25 % polyvinyl acetate – PVA (similar to wood glue)
15 % pigment (ochre)
10 % Zinc sulfide – ZnS
10 % sawdust

all white except sawdust and pigment... =)
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  #108  
Old 04-08-2011, 12:11 PM
ranchhand ranchhand is offline
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Uh oh... Another thread derailed by zimmerit and chips...

Has anyone brought up "scale color" yet

Not to make light of the discussion, but this is one of the classic points of contention in modeling German armor...

The others being; green tigers in north africa, what color German yellow/grey really where, tanks in red oxide primer only, etc etc etc. I have a feeling we will never have the one answer, if there even is one answer.
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  #109  
Old 04-08-2011, 12:44 PM
KuKŁiNsKi KuKŁiNsKi is offline
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well for primer color we can be sure that there was more colors... some jagdpanthers were painted in zinc primer...
but for zimm i really don't see any other option than this khaki/yellowish color from black/white and color pictures...
http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/Tige...dy-Destroy.jpg
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Portals/0...er_smacked.jpg (nice one)
http://iandaglish.squarespace.com/st...=1274804012281
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  #110  
Old 04-09-2011, 01:30 AM
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gibsonfndr gibsonfndr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KuKŁiNsKi View Post
and do you maybe know on that last picture of yours what is that white thing all over zimm?
Well what we know is this Stug had several coats of paint over the Zimmerit.

The little bit of Zimmerit on first pic I took from one Saumur Panther but they were taking it off to sand the whole hull so I didn't commit any crime. I also helped it chip a bit on the Jagdpanzer IV but this has to remain secret. I plead not guilty for the other crimes.

You noticed on the pics I posted, of course, the various shades of brown / tan. Now speaking of 70 year old Zim you'd think it peels off gently but it does not. It sticks like mad. It must've been very difficult to take it off at an early stage.
We also have to be careful when studying pics of destroyed tanks because most of the parts we see where Zimmerit is gone are burnt. The heat created by a 75 mm shell powerful enough to "drill" a Panther turret wall as seen on the pics above is enough to bring all our inquiries about what was underneath the Zimmerit to an end. Here you've got three of them.

Real zimmerit, factory fresh exists. M Gibb spent millions to produce some to cover up his StuG III. Unfortunately he couldn't find enough of the original material required to cover up the whole SPG. Ten kilos too short. The had to use fake Zimmerit to replace it. It sticks and it really is anti-magnetic.
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